Cover
story
The
gospel in a Catholic’s political life
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), elected minority leader of the
House of Representatives by her Democratic colleagues, is the first woman to
lead a party in either the House or Senate. In a wide-ranging interview with
NCR Washington correspondent Joe Feuerherd, Pelosi explained where she
hopes to lead House Democrats, her position on war with Iraq, and what it means
to be a high-profile Catholic in public office. Excerpts of that 40-minute
conversation follow. A fuller version of the interview can be found by clicking
on DOCUMENTS on the NCR Web site, www.natcath.org
NCR: Last October when the House was considering the
resolution authorizing military action against Iraq, you stated that you had
“seen no evidence or intelligence that suggests that Iraq indeed poses an
imminent threat to our nation.” Have you seen such evidence since then?
Pelosi: No, what I’ve said in the context of that, is
that when the director of Central Intelligence [was] asked what threat Iraq
posed to the United States, [he] said that if unprovoked the probability was
low that Iraq would use … weapons of mass destruction against the U.S.
However, if we went into Iraq with the intention of regime change, and backed
Hussein up against the wall, the probability was high that he would use
chemical or biological [weapons] against us.
I saw nothing in the intelligence that said what the
administration was positing -- that you had to go into Iraq because they were
developing a weapon of mass destruction to be launched against the U.S. They
don’t have that technology, and they certainly don’t have the
technology to launch against the U.S., so I didn’t see that as a
justification for war. And we knew of no plans or intentions from an
intelligence standpoint that Iraq was thinking about doing this, recognizing
that they didn’t have the technology to do it. Maybe if they had the
technology they would … [but] they do not have the indigenous capacity in
Iraq to produce [such] a weapon of mass destruction, they don’t have the
fissile material, they have to get it from some place else, and they have to
get the technology for the launch capacity from someplace else. So let’s
stop it at the source rather than going to war at the end user.
Having said that, if the president of the United States makes a
decision to place our young people in harm’s way because it is his
judgment that we have to do that to protect the American people, I know that we
will all be 100 percent behind the president and in support of our young people
in the military.
Is war justified absent an imminent threat?
I’m not the commander-in-chief. If war is justified with Iraq
on the basis of their development of weapons of mass destruction, the threat
they pose to the United States, and the treatment of their people … then I
think there are several other countries which are candidates for us to go to
war with.
One that immediately comes to mind is Iran, which is a
proliferator, an exporter of terrorism to the Middle East, a threat to its
neighbors, [and] is developing weapons of mass destruction. It is as much or
more of a threat to the stability of that region, which is important to our
national interest, to the Persian Gulf and the Middle East region.
Certainly the North Koreans have nuclear weapons and the launch
capacity -- they can’t reach the U.S. yet, we don’t think -- but we
have tens of thousands of our young people on the border there. They are a
threat to their neighbors. They have the technology and they are major
proliferators of weapons of mass destruction.
Is being a Catholic in public life a blessing or a burden?
Oh, it’s a blessing. I have more people praying for me.
Love of country, deep love of the Catholic church, and love of
family were all the values I was raised in. I don’t like to have religion
and politics come too closely together, but I will say that I am motivated by
the Gospel of Matthew, as many people in politics are. I find it an
inspiration.
What did I see the other day? “The divinity in me bows to the
divinity in you.” The respect that we have for the individual because of
the spark of divinity that we all carry serves me well in politics -- to
respect people and their point of view. I say that -- I hope it doesn’t
sound patronizing -- in a very respectful way.
My upbringing -- working on the side of the angels with my parents
-- to help people, again according to Gospel of Matthew, and the idea …
[that we] look upon God’s creation as an act of worship. To ignore the
needs of God’s creation is to dishonor the God that made them. And that we
have that responsibility, all of us.
It’s part of me, it’s immediate in my life, it’s
immediate in the lives of many of my colleagues.
You were recently quoted as calling yourself a
“conservative Catholic.” Are you?
I think so. I was raised, as I say, in a very strict upbringing in
a Catholic home where we respected people, were observant, were practicing
Catholics and the fundamental belief was that God gave us all a free will and
we were accountable for that, each of us. Each person had that accountability,
so it wasn’t for us to make judgments about how people saw their
responsibility and that it wasn’t for politicians to make decisions about
how people led their personal lives; certainly, to high moral standards, but
when it got into decisions about privacy and all the rest, that was something
that individuals had to answer to God for, and not to politicians.
I have five children, five grandchildren; I try to abide by all
the teachings of the church in relationship to family. I think my family speaks
very clearly to that.
Two litmus tests that help define “conservative” and
“liberal” in the church: Married priests and women priests.
What can I say? The record speaks for itself in some respects. I
have always thought that there should have been a stronger role for women in
the church. When I was little my mother always wanted me to be a nun. I
didn’t think I wanted to be a nun, but I thought I might want to be a
priest because there seemed to be a little more power there, a little more
discretion over what was going on in the parish. I think the reality of life is
that wherever God sends a vocation that marriage should not bar anyone from
following that vocation. I know that that is in the future, I just don’t
how long it will take.
Women as priests?
Oh absolutely … Why not? Why not?
You have worked with the church leadership on many issues over
the years -- Central America, China -- and other domestic concerns. Have the
scandals of the past year damaged the church’s credibility?
I don’t think so. I think the church has high moral standing
on issues of lifting people up and reducing violence in the world. I don’t
think there’s anybody in the world who is a more credible messenger for
social improvement in the lives of people than His Holiness [Pope John Paul
II]. I say that without any question.
Of course, in different parishes and different dioceses it’s
different, but … in my diocese years ago … our archbishop got a
standing ovation for standing up on issues related to disarmament. And in our
churches in San Francisco and across the country we have worked together on
issues relating to sanctuary for people from El Salvador and to end the
violence in Central America. The pope is the leader in the world in helping on
alleviation of poverty in terms of the debt. … All of these issues are not
only important values that the church has taken the lead on, worked closely
with its parishioners and [its] following on, [but are issues in which it has
provided] moral leadership for the rest of the world.
Having said that, the tragedy for some of us is that as much as we
have worked on alleviation of poverty, and [on] social issues, and reducing
violence in the world, and respecting the other person, and meeting the needs
of other people, and [seeing] God’s creation as an act of worship -- those
relationships have been sadly affected by the decision on the part of some in
the church to disassociate themselves from [some political leaders] because of
our position on choice.
Is it more difficult today to be a pro-choice Cath-olic then it
was, say, 10 years ago?
It’s about the same. When I traveled across the country when
I was campaigning for candidates this last time, when I was in another city on
a Sunday, I would try to find a Catholic church nearby. I heard some of the
sermons in some of the churches down South, so I understand what some of our
colleagues undergo in the church -- it was difficult. We’ve had those
sermons in California, but [with] a little more subtlety than I was hearing
down South. It gave me a better understanding of what some of my colleagues are
going through.
If I was going to receive Communion, in my district in California,
in my archdiocese ... I never knew if this was the day it would be withheld.
And that’s a hard way to go to church. Fortunately, I’m invited -- I
have a big family -- I go to a lot of weddings, I’m in a different church
every week. I’m a moving target. I travel, so I’m not exactly a
target in terms of always being in the same church, although I go to St.
Vincent de Paul, which is my neighborhood parish.
In addition to that, on many occasions the archdiocese has told
the nuns that I couldn’t be the speaker at some event. And that’s
hurtful because we have so much in common. But it’s the decision the
church has made.
On the flip side of the abortion question, how big a tent is
the Democratic Party? Is it big enough to welcome Democrats who oppose
abortion?
I think it is a bigger tent than people realize. I come myself
from a family that does not share my views on choice.
That must make for some interesting dinner table
conversations.
Interesting in that they get back to the point that I made earlier
-- that we are all blessed by the Creator with a free will [to] which we are
answerable and I will step back to that. And that seems to be common ground
[among the family].
Having said that, I think there are occasions where they would
like me to be less visible, that they don’t like to see any disagreement
between the church and any of us.
National Catholic Reporter, January 24,
2003
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